Forgeworld Army Lists in main stream gaming

So I will first admit I have not really been a part of main stream gaming for over 2 years now. I have been in Japan and have traveled and seen many cool things while over here, but really my extent of the hobby has been online discussions, the little amounts of inport time I have to build and paint and the handfull of times I have played with a friend that picked up the game (and is eagerly awaiting a 6th ed Eldar release).

A Blanche original cover.

BUT in a way, with online being my primary exposure, I see ONLY main stream war gaming. And since my biggest goal/hope/plan once I get back stateside (I will be settled in and storming away on the hobby by late August) is to attend Adepticon, I am always keen to see what is brought too, playing at and winning big tournaments. And there is something I have always noticed with this. While Forgeworld units seem to be becoming more and more accepted, even on the tournament scene, no one seems to care for or endorse the use of Forge World army lists.

I for one stand for them. I had advocated for their allowance in 'Ard Boyz tournaments, as what is the point in proving you are the best if you are going to tell people what they can and cannot bring. There may be a better, completely legal, GW army that would confound and beat the winning 'Ard Boyz list. But alas we shall not know.

Why would you even buy a Sky Talon? Tauros have Scout! Lets just have Creed use Tactical Genius on some infiltrators while we are at it!

I don't think these lists are in any way overpowered. In fact they tend to be stuck behind the codex creep, so end up overpriced and/or underpowered. Plus, looking at the picture above, they often have some useless choices put in for the sake of a cool display/diorama model and/or fluff. But what the lists do create is the opportunity for incredibly fluffy and characterful armies that fill niche roles in the fluff or are representative of an iconic 41st millenium army. Many of them can also be applied to forces not neccessarily of what they were written for. I will give some examples:

1- My own Genswick. I use not only the standard IG codex, but I use the DKK Siege Regiment list as well (available for DL from FW)
2- The Tyrant's Legion from the Badab War- Perfect IMO to do an Alpha legion army. Units of marines and mortal desciplined troops.
3- Elysian Drop Troops from the Raid on Kastorel Novem- turn them into a Stormtrooper company/inquistorial raid force or even just oBlogger is a free blog publishing tool from Google for easily sharing your thoughts with the world. Blogger makes it simple to post text, photos and video onto your personal or team blog.ther regiments, such as Harkoni Warhawks.

If people are going to be allowing units into standard codices, why not just allow the lists into standard play. That would allow players to use more thematic characters/units and possibly avoid unfluffy choices for their armies, vice just cherry picking what they need to fill that Contemptor sized hole in their list.

175 pts of Heavy 6, S 6 rending Skyfire+Interceptor shots right there, all wrapped up in a nice AV 13/12/10, 3 Hull Point, 5++/6++, "I can fight back in assault" package

GW seems to be all about "Forging the narrative" these days. The FW lists all are built of an incedible amount of background presented in high quality story driven campaign books. They often are onne dimensional and are intended for use in the campaign system accompanying their associated book. This is actually a REALLY good argument for allowing them in standard play. Since they are so story/campaign driven, they typically have a number of inherent flaws that prevent them from being the uber list every one fears FW would put out and the list struggles to deal with some basic scenarios and some common armies that it was conceived of to face. The Tyrant's Legion was written with SM opponents in mind for example. This makes them a greater tactical challenge to employ in a standard 40k setting/tournament, as well as makes it more varied and a greater test of skill for the opponent, as they may be facing new challenges and unfamilar force compositions. If you are going to a tournament and know you are likely to face x, y and z you will prep for them. Now with more options out there, you may have to consider in more general terms. This really spices things up while inherently balances the game more. The "Super Power" of Forgeworld most people fear boils down to 3 reasons:

He even exists in the game already!

1- They were the producers of Apocalypse Units BEFORE Apocalypse even existed. Titans and Superheavies are incredibly powerful BUT these are not intended for normal play NOR do they exist in the lists I am advocating.
2- They were the producers of Flyers BEFORE they were incorporated into the main rule set/Apocalypse. Everyone knows that air power is super awesome now because it is super hard to counter BUT now everyone has access to airpower or at least a way to fight it. In the past though, no one had either, so if having FW meant you had air power this was a bad thing.
3- People fear the unknown. And that is what Forgeworld is. There are units and characters some players have never heard of, often because FW is slightly cost restrictive, but then again so it the whole game. FW is coming out of the shadows more and more every day, and it is time it becomes fully accepted.

I for one advocate the usage of FW army lists in major tournaments and throughout clubs and games store. List equality! Take up the call with me!

Bonus- It has the added benefit of being untouched by Matt Ward!

Space Marine (and Variants) Flyer Discussion (sorta Rant)

So with the release of Imperial Armour Aeronautica and Warhammer 40k Compendium: Death from the Skies, I have some mild complaints. They are based upon fluffiness, army composition, and codex uniqueness vs universality. This isn't one of my rants where I go off talking about the stupidity of a certain element of the game or how broken I perceive something to be (which are all typically exaggerated for the Internet anyways. Always remember, the internet's greatest output is hatred. Everything else is a byproduct).

So basically my main gripe is down to this- The inclusion of the Storm Raven into the inventory of SM and BT but not the inclusion of the Storm Talon into BA, GK and SW.

And remember, this was originally designed as a skimmer, not a flyer

First of all the Stormraven was something unique that set BA apart from all the other SM variants. You may say there is alot more, but all those changes are really just variants of existing units or changes in FOC. The Stormraven was wholly unique. When the GK got it as well, it wasn't too much of a problem for me as the GK, while a power armour army, are different in so many ways when compared to SM and Codex Variants. But now that unique quality is spoiled. If there is any army that should have gotten it, I would say it would be SW, but really they should get the Storm Talon instead IMO (which they do not have access to either, making SW the most boned SM variant in 6th, with no native flyer options meaning you either have to take allies or fortifications for air defense).

SM flyers do leave something visually to be desired

Then there is the Storm Talon, which by the way is half as expensive points wise as the Storm Raven, and just as heavily armed. Sure it may have one less HP and is 11 all round vs 12, with no transport capacity, but if you buy 2 (just 20 pts over an unmod raven), you have twice the fire power, multiple targets (that are flyers) and 4 hull points. Still no transport capacity yes, but let us look at the utility of the Transport Capacity. First off, it is clearly for assault units, which 6th is causing people to shed. As well, 6th is a numbers game, and the best assault units to deploy from a raven tend to take up 2 slots, thereby really cramping the size of the unit to 6. Next, built into that cost mentality is dreadnought transportation, something rarely done. You are paying for that ability, and most of the time wasting it, of which the Storm Talon has no lost cost. Last off, there is always a need to shoot at more things, which is all the Talon will ever do. While the Raven can do this too, its mission and cost is not based upon this, and its mission isn't alway utilized, lowering unit untilization/efficeincy (while yes, gaining tactical flexibility for the savvy general, but once again, you are paying more for that).

So really, SM players will likely normally opt for the Storm Talon (cheaper, heavily armed) versus the Storm Raven UNLESS they need the Raven to perform the roll it is specifically designed to do (which is done best with BA anyways since they have Descent of Angels) and transport a hard hitting assault unit in quickly. Meanwhile if BA/GK want a Flyer, they are stuck with the Raven, whether they need the transport capacity or not. And as I said before, SW are just screwed (well at least untill you read below)

Now you may think at this point "What about Dark Angels? All they have are the crappy Dark Talon/Nephilim?" Well I really don't know how those play, but I can say this about them- they at least have unique native flyers that fit their fluff and complement a unique DA athestetic and force composition.

But if that is not good enough for you, there is an answer, that is once more detrimental to the BA/GK- The Forge World Storm Eagle.

An actually expansion unlike Death from the Skies

Now if you are one of those people that get all uppity and shout "But that is FW! Bah-humbug!", then you might as well press the back button now and run back to BoLS (which is where you likely came from). Forge World is not only becoming less cost prohibitive (comparitively that is- looks at Australia- while maybe the game as a whole is -sheds a tear for Australia) but it is acceptable now, as I have advocated for a long time. They produce balanced rules for the most part, and IMO have more underpowered units, lists and vehicles than overpowered ones.

Back on track though. The Storm Eagle was FW's answer to the Storm Raven and really crossed the bridge between Raven and Thunderhawk. It is only 225 points, decently armed for strike capabilities rather than anti-flyer, and has a 20 man transport capacity. And is useable by SM, BT, DA, CSM (yep) and SPACE WOLVES (YAY they got a flyer!). Okay, don't be too excited for the SW, as I said the Eagle isn't really good at the anti-flyer roll and that is what SW lack the most is Flyer Defense. However it is better than nothing.

Now if you were going to use a Strom Raven specifically to deliver an assault force, why not use an Eagle instead. It can deliver more damage to ground targets and deliver more troops to battle at the same cost! And as we said, the only reason a SM player has to take a Raven over a Talon is to perform this very role! There is really only one explanation for how this could have happened. The two books (Aeronautica and Death from the Skies) where written in a vacuum in relation to one another. FW clearly made the Storm Eagle for armies without the Storm Raven, and GW clearly ignored FW options when writing their rules (as they often do). While that was an okay system in the past when FW was something for specialist play only, as I mentioned above they are far more integrated now and the two entities cannot operate like this anymore.

The UH-1N and AH-1W. The new UH-1Y looks retarded, like it has a tumor on its back.

I'll wrap up here with a final point- The Talon is a true gunship, the Raven is not. The Raven is a multipurpose vehicle, much like a Valkyrie/Vendetta (40k) or UH-1 Huey (Real Life), whereas the Talon is built just for killing, like the Vulture (40k) or AH-1 Cobra (Real Life). And for fast air assault, you would use both in tandem, like the Elysians (40k) or US Marines (Real Life). You wouldn't just want the multipurpose vehicle for support. Sure it can do the job, but not as well as the dedicated Close Air Support (CAS) platform. The Blood Angels are the SM version of Elysians, or at least they should be in 40k. They are the best capable for this role in terms of FOC, Army Special Rules, equipment and Fluff-wise. So why would they not have a dedicated CAS unit like the Storm Talon in their inventory. They have all these fast vehicles, fast assault troops, DS Landraiders, outflanking tanks. They are a lightning assault army, but cannot access the most obvious support platform for lightning assault. I guess the point I am trying to make is, lets make Blood Angels Space Marines feel like they are all actually that... Marines.

The Arguments I Have – Discordian

When I play 40k I “try” and play the game we are supposed to all be playing. The major arguments I have usually start because I’ve stumbled into a game with someone playing the game they think we should be playing.

When I’m playing friendly games I do force myself to play by the rules, even the ones I hate, but I won’t be dead set on enforcing them on my opponents if they are honest mistakes. Sometimes if someone does something illegal I’ll even wait till the end of the game to bring it up and see what it was they thought they were doing. They’re responses usually help me gauge my desire to play them again.

Tournaments however are a different story. In a tournament you are saying yeah today's the day I play a lot of 40k and I better be good 40k. I play the game we are all supposed to be playing and I intend to make sure everyone else does too. And that is usually the point it gets heated.

Last weekend while I was in a little tournament, a recurring issue came up in regards to rules. The first time a TO was on hand and the matter got resolved quickly. The second no TO around and I ceased to care. I told the player he was wrong in probably not the nicest of ways, explained why, and then let the player cheat (didn’t matter the game was mine. Who brings two troop choices to a Tournament?).

After the fact the player didn’t bother to apologize he simply agreed I was right on the issues and that in the future we should agree to play differently……. I might not go out of my way to play him in the near future…….

Meanwhile back in the article I was writing, I did realize that the issues that came up weren’t because both players were trying to callously cheat me, but because they thought we were playing the game they thought we were playing and not the game we were supposed to be playing. There are dumb rules in 40k and sometimes even dumber rules explained very dumbly. We can all agree on that. But I find myself far too often having to track down rules in the magical “choose your own adventure” main rule book because someone didn’t take the time to understand a rule the first time around and it’s now cemented in their heads as some distorted mess.

I guess my main point is read a book and don’t assume things. And it might be helpful if patience is used because there is a chance the person doesn't know they are cheating you.

But I swear if I have to explain vehicle firing arcs in a tournament game one more time THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

Probably should change the last part "we're Jerks!"



Air Superiority Discriminatory – Discordian

So playing in 6^th edition brings with it certain aspects some of us wish where more flushed out. Old books still being old and unsupported, random wound allocation coupled with things like full squads of Reavers, a full description of what special power weapons really where at launch, allies’ matrix being imperial guard for everyone, and my greatest sore point and todays point of discussion FLYERS being FLYERS.

I could easily go on a rant about how unbalanced they are, but that’s not going to really help anyone or make me feel better because both you and I are stuck with Flyers as they are.

Kind of like that

It’s worth noting that flyers have dramatically changed the pace of the game. There has always been a reserve element in the past such as deep striking and outflanking to put pressure on your opponents deployment zone. But these thing have always had they’re weaknesses. Deepstriking left you in a very vulnerable blast formation and carried with it a risk of mishap. Outflanking could be avoided or simply you showing up on the wrong side of the map. Both of were on 4+ starting on turn two in 5^th edition, not anymore.

Flyers combined with the new reserve 3+ rolls (some armies in fact can easily make this a 2+) have introduced a level of certainty previously only reserved to a very select few things. With flyers you can put pressure anywhere on the table turn 2 with little to no repercussions. This is part of the reason I truly believe they implemented the whole “no assault out of reserve rule” the one the neutered outflanking units. They needed to allow people to make full use of their deployment zone without fear of being beta striked as it were.

If you've seen it like that guy who slept on the chair

  

The easy solution to fighting flyers is to use other flyers, some of the depressingly few units that actually have skyfire (Please ignore forge world, there rules not officially accepted by GW even though officially owed by GW). In flyer on flyer action you want to actually go second so your birds are shooting down the bad birds and not the other way around. I would never indorse this in regular practice because there are very few instances where deepstriking puts you in better situation than simply flying on, but if you deepstrike your AA flyers you get a chance at rear armor or you can misdirect your opponent into to make some movement mistakes. Make your opponents think this isn’t connect four guys.

Besides flyer on flyer GW has given every army the option for fortifications. Fortifications that come with guns that actually scare flyers …. Assuming your opponent just doesn’t kill them first turn. Intercept is a powerful thing which is severally underestimated. For example I played a game last week that was against a drop-poding space marine army. First turn he came down with combat squaded sternguard with the meltas hoping to pop the vehicle and the combi plasmas to roast the dudes inside. I intercepted the melta half and managed to kill one of the melta guns and come his shooting phase he missed with the other, he ended up wasting his plasma to kill my venom (he really doesn’t like them apparently).

One important thing to consider when buying fortification guns is who is going to shot it. Special rules like precision shots, Signum, Fast shot, Tank Hunter, and my favorite “I’ve been expecting you” get applied to the gun. So it’s important when list building to consider your options to make the most out of your guns.

The last method I recommend to dealing with flyer is to ignore them. A list that is spamming flyers runs into big problem if you think about it. First turn can be your playground. There are two neat 6^th edition rules you should look out for. The first one is only 50% of an army can be chosen to be put in reserve, things that have to start in reserve don’t count (for some reason choosing to embark something doesn’t count for this either). The second is if at the end of the game turn you have nothing on the table you lose. What this means is if you have a fast enough and hard hitting enough army you can knock the socks off your opponents unfortunate stuff stuck on the table. You can put the entirety of your army against your opponents unreserved half and it can be very deadly, especially if you go first giving you two turns of cage fight. I’m not suggesting it’s easy to table someone this way but if someone sees you going for this result they will deploy very conservatively giving you plenty of room to push deep into his deployment half somewhat nullifying the impact of flyers by screwing with his movement options.

WHERE'S YOUR FLYER NOW

SON OF.....

DAM IT!

Can you drop me off at a Popeyes?

Other options are stocking up on tons of shooting and tons of twin-linking, which in 6^th you probably already doing. Forge world can be an option if allowed in your play area but because GW screwed the pooch on the interaction between skyfire and intercept (Hydra being a prime example, almost all the forge world AA options have Intercept which while super good against flyers hinders things that are not flyer even more.

Here’s to hoping this random flyer supplement coming out next month doesn’t actually make me hate this game even more.



Dark Angels WIP - Schlemazal

With the new codex and models out, it’s time for me to get back to work on my army, starting with some new additions. I picked up a Nephilim and the Deathwing Command Squad/Knights kit along with my copy of the book (sadly, I was not expecting the Nephilim to be terrible), and I’ve been putting some time into building and painting over the last week.

First off, the Nephilim. When it comes to the rules for the Nephilim, I think it’s way overcosted for what it can do (which is basically just kill light vehicles and rear armour). Sadly, I’d already bought one and its alter-ego, the Dark Talon, is even worse, so I built it anyway. I was actually really impressed with this kit, if not with the rules behind it. I think the design of the fighter itself is rather nice. I was worried from the front-on pictures that the hull would be really blocky, but this turned out not to be the case.

One of the issues I often have with GW vehicle kits is that there is inevitably some warping on large pieces, which can be a real pain to deal with when constructing the hull. The Nephilim has an interesting way around this though – the engine pieces are designed to fit tightly around the assembled hull, holding them into place even with minor warping. Everything else fit together well and the whole thing was a breeze to assemble. I know it’s been a while since the last time I built a vehicle, but this was by far the easiest to build kit I’ve ever seen.

As for the weapons, I have to disagree with Discordian – the avenger megabolter is the way to go on the Nephilim. With the remainder of its weapons at S6 or less, the Nephilim is relegated to hunting light vehicles and rear armours (AV10-11). The volume of fire is much more valuable here, and the megabolter set-up will glance an AV10 or 11 vehicle to death on an average shot, if it doesn’t kill outright. It really isn’t worth firing at AV12 or better  even with the lascannon (~40% chance of a single penetrating hit, all other shots wasted), so I say go with what will do the best against AV10-11. If the Nephilim had S8 missiles, it would be different, but it doesn’t.

When it came to the terminators, I decided to build a new command squad. I really like the new Deathwing Knights, but having AP4 apart from a single round of combat means that they’ll be one-hit wonders most of the time. I think any Deathwing army would benefit from having a squad as heavy-hitters (plus they’re great against light vehicles and chaos), but I field a company list with only one or two terminator squads and I need those to have more versatility.

I really like the robed look for the terminators, which is why I got the kit in the first place. The only issue I had with this set was that the robe torsos were each designed to fit on only one of the leg poses comfortably, so if you want your terminators to have different poses you’ll have to do some modifying. There’s also only one thunder hammer in the kit, so I had to scavenge a second one for the above squad. Be warned when building a terminator command squad though – unlike every other apothecary in the game I’ve ever seen (even others in the same book), the Deathwing apothecary MUST give up his melee weapon, meaning no power weapon of any sort on your apothecary.

I’ve started painting this squad, so I’ll leave off with a few pictures of the one model I have finished. This is actually my first time painting Deathwing in a bone color, in the past I’ve used white drybrushed over black to simulate rubbed-on ashes based on one of the older stories for the origin of the color, but I felt that this would look better in the end. As for the robes, I think in the future I’m going to go a bit more extreme with the highlight colors, as I’m not satisfied with how much it stands out on the top part. Next up, the champion with halberd (or Sgt. McFartface as Gothmog would call him).