Fluff Question: Progenoid Glands

This is something that has bothered me for quite some time actually. Does it take 1 or 2 progenoid glands to make a Space Marine? It is never really explained, just that the progenoid carries the gene seed, and that when the Marine dies, it is the duty of the Apothecary to remove it so that future Marines can be made.

We know for a fact that a Marine carries 2 glands. It is too embedded in the fluff. A bunch of BL novels describe how the Apothecary has to remove one from the neck and then punch in through the chest armour and fused ribcage to get to the second gland. But my question is as follows: were both implanted as a Neophyte?

I think that the way GW and BL writers have thought it out over time is that yes, during surgery 2 glands are put in and mature to produce future geneseed. But to me this doesn't make mathematical sense. Space Marines die at too high of a rate at their limited numbers for this to make sense. Yes an apothecary is supposed to recover it, but how many times have you read one of the following scenarios
-The Marine's Corpse is left behind
-The Marine's Corpse is ejected into space
-The Marine's Corpse is torched by a flamer
-The Marine's Corpse is reduced to slag by plasma
-The Marine's Corpse is vaporized by a melta
-The Marine's Corpse is blown up
-The Marine's Corpse is eaten by daemons/nids/orks
-The Marine's Corpse is shot up way too much
-The Marine's Corpse is hit by a Gauss weapon
-The Marine's Corpse on a ship when it goes KABOOM
Just to name a few. And really, the above are mostly the only way to kill a space marine short of removing his head.

So the issue with the above deaths? Well the apothecary can't recover the gene seed. So if two are required to make the next generation of Space Marine then that is one less Space Marine that can be made. Granted there are depositories of geneseed, but unless every chapter has like 50 of the fortresses sitting around that exist in the novel Storm of Iron, then over 10,000 years, at the rate Space Marines die in the above fashion, then each chapter would run out of gene seed.

We also know that the progenoid glands/gene seed cannot be replicated. It is well established in the fluff, and best demonstrated in the later Blood Angel novels by James Swallow, or the Horus Heresy novel Deliverance Lost. SPOILER ALERT: Okay so they did replicate it in that book, but the point of then end is that the data was destroyed and the ability to replicate and make geneseed lost to all but the Emperor.

So what are the alternatives? Well...

1- There is no alternative. Simply accept the way I first stated and assume that GW and BL employees and writers have a poor understanding of fundamental mathematics. A diminishing finite amount of geneseed will eventually see SM chapters die off.

2- One progenoid is implanted as the gene seed in a neophyte and his developing body grows a second one as a result. This would allow the numbers to grow slowly over time as it is suggested for recovering chapters, but slow enough that when a chapter falls below a critical threshold, they may die at a rate faster than they create. Examples of scenarios like this could be the Flesh Tearers and Celestial Lions.

3- A mature progenoid is removed from its host and is separated into 2 halves to make 2 new progenoids that will grow and develop in a Space Marine. This kinda combines the standard "Implant 2 remove 2 approach" while allowing room for permanent loss, since one dead Space Marine can be used to create 2 new Space Marines. I think this is really the most likely way, otherwise why would glands have to "mature". Wouldn't they always be mature, from the time they were pulled out of a cooling corpse untill the time the next host is a cool corpse himself. This suggests that each seed changes and develops in a marine, which would suggest a possibility for aberration and mutation over time, which the fluff once again suggests that apothecaries monitor for generation after generation.

4- Geneseed is removed not only at death, but from all Space Marines at some point. Basically, say once it has been in you for 50-100 years, they just take it out to implant in another. This seems the least likely really, as I have never seen it mentioned. Plus, though more delayed than option 1, it would eventually fall to the same fate. A fixed number of geneseed would ultimately see SM chapters disappear. Though it does raise the question, do apothecaries remove the progenoids before placing a brother in the sarcophagus of a dreadnought. I would hope so, otherwise it seems a waste especially since most dreadnought seem to end their life going up in a puff of smoke (and whoosh of fireball), immolating the pilot instantly.

The guy is no longer super human, why does he need them anymore? If is secretes some chemical required to sustain what is left of his advanced physiology or the demands of long term stasis, why not artificially give it to him like everything else?

5- I did however find this description online:

1. Progenoids - There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck and the other within the chest cavity. These glands are vitally important and represent the future of the Chapter, as the only way new gene-seed can be produced is by reproducing it within the bodies of the Marines themselves. This is the implants only purpose. The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine. These take time (5 years in the first case, 10 in the latter) to mature into gene-seed. The gene-seed can then be extracted and used to create more Space Marines.

What to make of this? Well if all that is required is 1 geneseed to make a new Space Marine, it works out. Maybe they can make a full set of implantable organs from a single geneseed, but the important part is getting that single geneseed from the host. And if one geneseed makes 1 Space Marine with 2 progenoid glands, then the numbers can work out over the finite diminishing total doom approach. This is kinda a combination of some of the earlier ideas. It would mean that 2 progenoids are implanted, and 2 geneseed removed. But then either only 1 geneseed is needed for a new space marine OR you go with option 4 above and remove geneseed before death, BUT the glands then produce another set, and another, and so on and so forth until death.

Discuss. Or I guess, Disqus.

Codex Chaos Legions 2012- What I'd Like To See

So I have been giving some thought to the future of the most unique and defining piece of the Warhammer 40k universe: CHAOS. The forces of Chaos are something entirely different than anything seen in any other sci-fi universe and really give 40k that extra something that sets it apart. As such, the in game elements of Chaos need to be as jaw dropping, awe inspiring, and stir crazy as the fluff. Chaos Daemons did a decent job of this, but the success of the codex seemed very short lived and it isn't as strong as other codices, plus it fails to combine the other awesomeness of 40k, Space Marines.

That leaves us with Codex CSM which while good and perfectly balanced at the time of it's release, failed to meet the above criteria IMO. It just wasn't Chaotic, especially compared to earlier editions. Chaos should be insane as it's title suggest. Because of that failure, the future of Chaos weighs heavily on the release of Codex Chaos Legions. As such I did some brainstorming and came up with a list of things that I think really will ensure the success of the release in both terms of game mechanics and fluff.

1- Marks that make units roughly equivalent to Cult Troops- My biggest pet peeve of Codex CSM was that marks really failed to capture the essence of their chosen power. Now I understand cult troops really being the pinnacle of their god's disciples, but the Marks really need to reflect this better too, and need to do so on specialists foremost, such as Raptors and Terminators. Oh, and REALLY need to do it on HQs. A Khorne Marked Chaos Lord needs to be a super Berserker, not a slightly combat enhanced generic guy.

2- Remake Codex CSM as Codex Renegades- Now I know this won't happen this time around, but I really feel that Codex CSM needs to die off and go away. There should be a Codex Chaos Legions and a Codex Chaos Renegades. Chaos Legions would be exactly that, the OG CSM Legions or Warband derivations from that time. All Space Marine forces, with the ability to summon some denizens from the warp (daemons). These guys are old and BA and completely different from modern SM, and frankly tougher and greater warriors as a result. Then Chaos Renegades would be the forces of humanity that have fallen SINCE that time, plus possibly some other forces that have always been in the fluff but never represented (Loaxtl and Hrudd anyone?). So this would be the Space Marine chapters that have fallen (Red Corsairs, Astral Claws, Blood Gorgons, etc. etc.), or the renegade gaurd forces (Volscanni, etc. etc.). You can further reinforce this by removing daemons and making certain units clearly Space Marine, like Chaos Assault Marines instead of Raptors.

3- Daemons for cult legions = Chaos God of Cult. Basically get rid of generic daemons or at least allow some specific daemons (ie Blood Letters, Horros, Plaguebearers and Daemonettes). Who wants to play as the world eaters but take vanilla daemons that have not khornate characteristics.

4- All 9 legions represented via unique list/rules/characters- I think all 9 legions should be in this codex, which ties back into number 2. Basically it would work like Codex SM. If you don't do anything silly, you would have the black legion, plain and simple, like in Codex SM you would have the Ultramarines if you did nothing extra. Then to make the other legions, you start doing things (marks) and taking certain units (cult troopers) and characters. Characters will more than likely alter the rules of the army more so to reinforce the feel of your chosen legion.

5- Daemon Prince able to represent each legion- These guys were elevated to daemonhood from Marines of their respective legion. They need more than generic Daemon prince rules to show this. And you have alot of cool crazy potential here, and alot of cool crazy potential with GW/FW models.

6- Some insanity to the book. The last codex, while balanced, wasn't Chaotic- As I said earlier, CSM wasn't "crazy". I really want alot of choices and variations in the army, plus rediculous units. This doesn't mean Random though. Chaos dreads are a perfect example of a crazy unit gone wrong through randomness, as the random rule really gives them no added benefit. This leads me to point 7.

7- A reason to take dreadnoughts. As it stands there is very little reason to do so. The random matrix needs to go, and there needs to be ways to make them characteristic of each legion just like the Daemon prince. And sweet models already exist from FW, so there is no excuse (it's not like GW hasn't done this in the past, Colossus and Hydra in codex IG is a perfect example, or even the waveserpent in the past). Oh, and Contemptor variants would be a good addition, seeing as we are talking about armies that have been around since the Heresy.

8- If a character exists in Codex CSM, but needs to be in Legions, MAKE SURE HE IS IN LEGIONS. You know who I am talking about. Kharn. The Betrayer. The coolest single character in Warhammer 40k. A battleaxe wielding maniac. Sure abbadon should be in this too, but Kharn NEEDS TO BE. Fabius not so much, why? He is a renegade now, not an Emperor's Children brother anymore. But Lucius the Eternal is, so he should be.

I think 8 points is perfect for Chaos, so I am going to end there. I really can't wait to see what comes out, and while I know I won't get all, if any, of the above, this is really a positive direction forward as I see it and is my opinion of where GW should take their IP and franchise.

Genswick Imperial Guard Meltagunner Conversions

So I finally got to do some more work on my Genswick (between work, and I'll admit it, Mass Effect 3). Just some quick work and small conversion points to build these guys before moving on to my mortars and lascannons, then finishing Ogryns. After that I will have to get my ratling and Rough Riders, plus magnets for my banewolfs. Oh, and as of last night I have 3 heavy mortars and 2 hades drills from Forgeworld on the way. Well, I guess I got a little sidetracked there, so on to the pictures I guess.

Oooh. Ahhh. So I built 6 of these guys to work into my army. I am going to have to build more, but I will need a few parts, and I am thinking that a different power pack set up will be good for the meltas I give to veterans at higher point cost lists (something smaller more than likely).

So speaking of their power packs, what I used was simply a Space Marine landspeeder searchlight that can be mounted alongside the assault cannon. These were left over from when I built my autocannon teams. Just used some guitar string (my normal approach for tubing) to connect them to the weapon and TADA back pack reactors. When I paint these I am going to make the tops glowing and attempt directional lighting (something I want to try on this army with the multiple torches and lamps I have sprinkled through out it. It is a hobby challenge I have not yet attempted). As for the weapon, it is just the metla gun bit (albiet a Space Marine one) available from GW online. It costs like $5.99 or something for 5 of them, so even though they are metal, it saves alot vs paying like 2.99-4.99 per melta that you find on bit selling sites.

And for a few close ups. The first one will be really fun to paint with the two sources of directional lighting, back and front. And the second guy is great with his pick. Genswick are sappers and trench fighters, so what better way to show it.

Rules Rant: Psykout Grenades - Discordian

So on BOLS someone brought up Pyskout grenades as terrible thing in grey knight mirror matches because they will make a entire grey knight squad int 1. I don’t agree with this. I could be wrong but the internet doesn’t care about proving someone wrong…. just saying they are and adding stupid comments that don’t help. (this might just be a BOLS thing but my gut tells me its paninterdemic)

My point is I feel Psykout Grenades are covered by Botherhood of Psykers second bullet. Which means its effect is forced on a single model.

Here is a response I made to someone who was trying to prove me wrong and I respect him for it. But I’m posting it because it pretty much sums up my point. And I realized after typing it up “hey I should put that on flappy arms blog”.
Alright so psykout grenades do not affect an entire unit; it affects all psykers in a unit(s) that is assaulted. Here is something that targets psykers and does something to them.

Cruicble of malediction affects all psykers in 3d6 and causes them to be removed from play if they fail a leadership test. Here is something that targets psykers and does something to them.

Mindstirke missile affects all psykers under the blast template forcing a perils. Here is something that targets psykers and does something to them.

Condemnor bolt guns cause any model that is hit to take perils. Here is something that targets psykers and does something to them.



Lets ignore the last two because they in fact cause perils and are covered under the first part of brotherhood of psykers. I do want to point out though that missiles target all psykers under a template causing multiple perils and is still regressed to causing a single perils to a single model. This is a set condition of effect.

Now the first two is where I think we should focus on. Crucible of malediction causes all psykers in a set condition to be effected. It is neither a shooting nor a melee attack that requires a to hit roll or a to wound roll, and perils is never brought up. Yet this has been faqd by GW to still be covered under brotherhood of psykers. This can only mean that GW sees it as an attack that targets psykers, otherwise brotherhood would not affect it….. Alternatively gw could just be blowing stuff out their behind….. you never really can tell.

You do in fact treat the whole unit as a single Psyker. A grey knight squad effected by a crucible still only loses the Justicar (or random unfortunate dude if Justicar dead) if they fail a leadership test. This is not an interpretation though this is what GW says happens.

This invalidates your statement “This means that anything that affects a psyker will affect the whole unit (ie psykout grenades)”, because this is in fact is something that affects a psyker and doesn’t affect the whole unit and makes them explode. It is just redirected to the unfortunate focal dude.
(Note: This was a direct response to something someone else posted.)
Psykout grenades cause all psykers in a set condition to be int 1. It is neither a shooting nor a melee attack that requires a to hit roll or a to wound roll, and perils is never brought up.

People keep saying well you’re not throwing the grenade or anything; it’s not a weapon, and derp derp derp. Crucible is not a being thrown either, it’s just being opened like the Ark of the Covenant. There is this misconception that in order for something to be an attack it has to be a gun or sword that is rolling to hit. But in the end what they are doesn’t matter; it’s how they are used. And all these things attack other models by the very definition of the word. A key word not specifically described in the BRB.


So to me pskout grenades falls under the same results as crucible. If someone could prove to me that an attack has to be something with weapon profile then yes I would say psykout grenades do affect the whole unit and also crucible would be hilarious.

END

Book Review: Know No Fear by Dan Abnett

So I recently read Know No Fear by Dan Abnett. I think he is really bouncing back from his low point a few years ago (when he was diagnosed with epilepsy) and is showing off his story telling skills to their fullest. I think the Horus Heresy books are a really good outlet for him as he gets to shift characters and come up with interesting ways of telling the story, which he did both in Prospero Burns and now once again in Know No Fear, which focuses on the infamous The Battle of Calth.

WARNING SPOILERS START HERE.

The concept of "The Mark" and in this case, the Mark of Calth, as a timeline of events preceding and encompassing an event was pretty cool and a very good way to showcase the precise and measured way of war that the Ultramarines wage. Furthermore, this "Theoretical" vs "Practical" that the Ultramarines keep talking about is very characterful for Guilliman's legion and really defines the Ultramarines in a way the Codex and the Uriel Ventris series by McNeill never did but always should have. The Ultramarines are portrayed as the Masters of War that they are, but without being the emotionless Codex following automatons that people often mistake them for. There is alot of character and diversity presented, and how they face the adversity they are presented with in a calculated yet highly emotional manner is very refreshing.

As far as action goes, Dan proves once again he is a master of war. He would have been a great student of Sun Tzu, or at least a great advisor to Spielberg and other movie makers. My favourite part is actually the start of the calamity. What the Word Bearers did is genius, and giving credit where credit is due, Lorgar isn't the mastermind here, Dan Abnett is. I really loved how it started with the minor boarding of the Campanile and you don't know where it is going to go from there, especially with the massive defense grid around Calth. But then he goes through the destruction of the ship and the grid in one of the coolest sequences in Black Library history and you can just see it all unfold even though it is happening in the smallest fraction of a second.

This book didn't develop the story of the Heresy too much, but I do like how it details the interpersonal relationships of the Primarchs more, particularly when it discusses in details the strengths and weaknesses of each one and how Guilliman maintains that any war could be won if he had Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Russ or Rogal Dorn, the "indomitable few" as it were. The novel also juxtaposes the Ultramarine view of the Word Bearers against what was presented in The First Heretic by Dembski-Bowden in a very good way.

Where the questions are left lingering though is surrounding John Grammaticus, Oll Persson and the Emperor. I think I have figured it out though. There is clearly only one answer. They are immortals.

I guess this is why Horus will go for the Emperor's throat, the only way to kill him is to cut off his head with a sword. Joking aside I really can't wait to see where this all ties together.

But really what is with these guys? Where did they come from? Who are they? But it is nice to see more of the Cabal come into play, especially so shortly after the roll they had in Deliverance Lost, with Legion being the first and last time we had seen them before that. I am however waiting for Eldrad Ulthran to step in more and play a big roll here. He is part of the Cabal and we all want to see him "be a Dick".

All in all I give Know No Fear 5 out of 5 Aquillas. Probably the best Ultramarines novel around, and does them much better justice during the Heresy than Ben Counter gave them in Battle For the Abyss.

Blogroll Maintenance (Need Input) and Site Improvement Poll

So I performed some blogroll maintenance/surgery today. Added some big guys out there and cut out some long dead blogs. BUT I still have more work to do.

Unfortunately due to the position I am in I don't really get to check as many blogs as I like (slow internet on a ship) and so I really only go to BOLS and FTW, plus any interesting links from there. This is where you come in.

If you have a blog, or know a blog I should have on the list of holy orders (the Blogroll), email me (sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com) or post it here. I just ask that you link me in return, though this is the honour system.

Furthermore, I am going to try and add one of those fancy scroll lists in about a week. If anyone knows where the html for that is or what the widget is, please let me know. It will just save time on my part, which will be better spent building, painting, gaming and posting in the short time I get home.

As well, please answer the poll to the side. I want to write what you want to see. I am really going to strive to do more book reviews, starting with a back log of recent books and then I am going to attempt to do one for each book I read from now on (oh my goodness, I hope I can stick to that). BUT beyond that, this site is as much for all hobbyists as it is an outlet for me to discuss what I love so much, and I am happy discussing it ALL so I just want to know what the reader craves.

IG Stormtrooper Company- Elysian Style: 2000/2500/3000

So Discordian said I should take the list I posted yesterday of the IG Skimmers/Stormtroopers and do it up IA 8: Raid on Kastorel Novem Style ie Elysians. So still a biggest bang of sorts, though it doesn't max on the potential number of skimmers, as the Valkyries are dedicated transports, but I feel the additions are good and the corps of the army is easy to switch between both lists.

2000 pts
HQ- Company Command Squad- 125: Carapace Armour, Meltagun, Power Weapon, Officer of the Fleet
Elites- Stormtroopers- 195: 2 x Plasmagun
Elites- Stormtroopers- 185: 2 x Meltagun
Elites- Stormtroopers- 185: 2 x Meltagun
Troops- Veteran Squad- 155: Grenadiers, 3 x Plasmagun
Troops- Veteran Squad- 125: Grenadiers, 3 x Sniper Rifle
Troops- Veteran Squad- 135: Grenadiers, 3 x Flamer, 6 x Shotguns, Laspistol & Power Weapon
Fast Attack- Valkyrie Squadron (3)- 330: 1 x Rocket Pods
Fast Attack- Valkyrie Squadron (3)- 330: 1 x Rocket Pods
Fast Attack- Vendetta Squadron (1)- 130
Heavy Support- Vulture- 105

2500 pts
Troops- Veteran Squad- 130: Grenadiers, 2 x Meltagun
Troops- Veteran Squad- 110: Grenadiers
ADD TO VENDETTA SQUADRON- 2 x Vendetta- +260

3000 pts
ADD to vets in 2500 pts- +1 Meltagun- +10
ADD to vets in 2500 pts- +3 Grenade Launchers- +15
ADD to all vets except shotguns- +5 Auxiliary Grenade Launchers, +15 pts x 4
ADD to each vet squad- Lascutter- +10 x 5
ADD to Vulture- Twin Punisher Cannons- +50
Heavy Support- Vulture- 155: Twin Punisher Cannons
Heavy Support- Vulture- 160: Twin Linked Missile Launcher, Twin Multiple Rocket Pods

Pts: 2000 Scoring Units: 3 KPs: 16 Model Count: 66 Infantry, 8 Skimmers
Pts: 2500 Scoring Units: 5 KPs: 20 Model Count: 86 Infantry, 10 Skimmers
Pts: 3000 Scoring Units: 5 KPs: 22 Model Count: 86 Infantry, 12 Skimmers

Tactics stay the same as the last article pretty much EXCEPT the command squad is not really geared for tank hunting anymore, so just put them with the assault force. All the lascutters in 3k kinda make up for this. Use the Vultures to pave the way for the assault force, or as the assault force drives in one direction, send them in the other paving the way with high volume firepower, dividing your opponent in two.

Biggest Bang- IG Skimmers/Stormtrooper Company, 2000/2500

So I sat down and messed with the Imperial Guard Codex and capitalized on the Creed's Elite concept, maxing Valkyries and Storm Troopers, going for the first Biggest Bang for your Buck I have done in a while.

2000 pts
HQ- Company Command Squad- 260: Creed, Carapace Armour, 4 x Meltagun, Astropath, Officer of the Fleet
Elites- Stormtroopers- 195: 2 x Plasmagun
Elites- Stormtroopers- 185: 2 x Meltagun
Elites- Stormtroopers- 185: 2 x Meltagun
Troops- Veteran Squad- 145: Grenadiers, 3 x Plasmagun
Troops- Veteran Squad- 115: Grenadiers, 3 x Sniper Rifle
Troops- Veteran Squad- 125: Grenadiers, 3 x Flamer, 6 x Shotguns, Laspistol & Power Weapon
Fast Attack- Valkyrie Squadron (3)- 330: 1 x Rocket Pods
Fast Attack- Valkyrie Squadron (3)- 330: 1 x Rocket Pods
Fast Attack- Vendetta Squadron (1)- 130

2500 pts
Troops- Veteran Squad- 130: Grenadiers, 3 x Meltagun
Troops- Veteran Squad- 110: Grenadiers, 2 x Grenade Launcher
ADD TO VENDETTA SQUADRON- 2 x Vendetta- +260

Pts: 2000 Scoring Units: 3 KPs: 15 Model Count: 67 Infantry, 7 Skimmers
Pts: 2500 Scoring Units: 5 KPs: 19 Model Count: 87 Infantry, 9 Skimmers

So you have an Astropath and Officer of the Fleet to help you win at the reserves game, which is the name of the game with 7 to 9 Skimmers on the table. Plus Creed has his spiffy rules to aide this aspect of the game further. A good mix of special weapons should help you take on a variety of foes, and the number of Lascannon and melta's is adequate for Armour. The stormtroopers can gun through powered armour foes when they swamp them en masse, especially if they get softened up by the Valkyries. And even with the Elite nature of the Army, it still has a relatively high model count. 67-87 4+ armour saves aren't the easiest to power through. The key is to keep this army out of assault though. Hop around and shoot, mass your fire and eliminate entire enemy squads at once so you don't get assaulted and bogged down in the following turns.

How I'd run the list is in 2 distinct halves. First would be a standoff containment force. This consists of the plasma Stormtroopers, Sniper Vets and Plasma vets in the first Valkyrie Squadron. Deploy them in a line, ideally on an objective, and hold the enemy in with massed las fire and special weapons at a minimum of 12" range. Next is your assault force. This is the 2 Melta storm trooper squad and the flamer/shotgun vets. They sweep in from the side or middile in the second valkyrie squad and push horizontally through the enemy line, overwhelming them in short ranged fire fights, assaulting only when you know that you won't get bogged down or you will be assaulted anyways (might as well get the charge bonus). Try to only assault with the vets, as your storm troopers should always be shooting, that is where they excell the most. The last element in Creed in the Vendetta. While not a distinct part of either force, he lends more to the assault BUT in a very specific capacity. His squad should be hunting armour. They have the weapons for it and the vehicle for it and do not have the numbers to prosecute actions against infantry formations.

In the 2500 point list, the Melta vets should go with the assault force and the grenade vets with the standoff containment force.

Warmachine Butcher Lists- 25/50/75/100

So I recently finally recieved my Warmachine Prime Mk II rule book and forces of Khador book. I am relatively inexperienced in Warmachine and reading through and trying to learn the rules. They are relatively stream lined which is nice. What I have very little experience with in Warmachine is list building and what is competitive on the table top. I know that this game is designed with competitve play more in mind than 40k (just read page 5). So I sat down and cobbled together a set of lists based on the Butcher of Khardov tier, which is what I know I want to use. I really like the idea of a hard hitting assault force, MoW are super awesome to me, and heavy warjacks are sweet. Plus I already own the Butcher, 3 Demo Corps, a Kodiak and Juggernaut.

Here is what I have

25 pts
Orsus Zoktavia, the Butcher of Khardov (+6)
Juggernaut- 7
Kodiak- 8
MoW Demolition Corps (3)- 6
MoW Shock Troopers (5)-9 (-1 for Tier 1 of Butcher)
Wardog (1)

50 pts (add to the 25)
Widowmakers- 4
MoW Drakhun- 4 (w/out Dismount) (I love this model! Favourite one in the entire game range)
MoW Kovnik- 3
Destroyer- 9 (goes with the Kovnik)
Berserker- 6

75 pts (add to the 50)
Decimator- 9
Berserker- 6
Marauder- 7
Add Dismount to Drakhun- +1
Widowmaker Marksman- 2

100 pts (add to the 75)
Devastator- 9
MoW Bombardier (5)- 11
Add 2 to Demo Corps- +3
MoW Kovnik- 3
Remove Dismount from Drakhun- -1

So how is this? Too many Warjacks? I think that is the most likely thing, though I picked up 2 kovniks to hopefully help that. And they are just SO COOL! Any better suggestions? Design elements to consider? Better 'jack choices? I am really open to input here.