Well last post I talked about the assault capacity of Space Wolves over Blood Angels
This week I talk about upgrade ability.
First off: Sagas
These are preety sweet, and with the ability to take 4 HQ choices with a saga a piece, you get to pick and choose the best of them while having a high variety. I personally like Warrior Born, Beast Slayer, Bear and Majesty in that order. I think it is the inner BA in me that places Warrior Born first.
So this though basically lets you custom tailor your HQ choices more then any other army and does not force you to take a named character to still feel like a SW. I have always been against being forced to take Named Characters to play your army like it should be played, SM being the worst with forcing you to take Vulkan or Kantor to feel like you are playing their chapters.
So what does this mean for BA? Well I doubt I get anything like sagas, but there should definately be a way to make the normal codex HQs other than the named characters. Either changes to statlines to makes them more assault based or some other abilities or wargear choices.
Speaking of Wargear choices...
Space Wolves have sooooo much. I am hoping the Blood Angels follow them in this. The characters you can make now have so much less wargear flexibility than what was afforded by the old armoury systems. SW seem to make up for that loss some what.
With the combination of Sagas and lots of Wargear, you have alot of potential for making unique characters in the new SW codex, and Sagas really do capture the feel of being a glory hound that SW should have.
With that being said, I hope to see the same in the new Blood Angels codex and have some great depth of character added to the masters of the 9th Legion.
Thursday, October 15, 2009
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Space Wolves: What it means for Blood Angels 2010
Well, SW has been out for a few weeks now and I have had a chance to look over the rules some what.
First things I noticed: Berserk Charge, Counter Attack
Well, yes, Space Wolves are supposed to be a brutal army. But Blood Angels live for Close Combat. So, we should see some enhancements for combat coming our way.
Wait, you say, Blood Angels have assault squad troops, elites, and HQ, that should be good enough. Well I say NO. Why? 5th edition is a game of Mechanized forces. I love Jump Troops, but in 5th it is much harder to assault infantry with them. Why? Well they are in a transport and if I assault the transport, they then get the assault on me after they pile out.
Now how this relates to Space Wolves is that all their units have counter attack, and all iterations of Blood Claws have Berserk Charge, giving them typically 4 attacks on the charge and 3 when charged, which is more than my assault troops, who get 3 offensively and 2 defensively. Yes, the Blood Claws are WS/BS 3 but lets number crunch. Our opponent will be one of the most common scoring units in the game right now: Nurgle Plague Marines. WS 4 T 5 I3 3+ Armour Saves.
Lets make the Squads.
So SW first
150 pts for 10 models, though they can get to 15, so lets do that, bringing us to 225 pts.
Now for special weapons. I can get my first flamer for free, melta for 5 or a plasma gun for 10. Since this is 5th ed, I'm taking the melta gun. Since I have 15 guys I get to take my second one for free. Brings us to 230 pts. I'll do one Blood Claw with a Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol, so we are now at 260.
Now if I stuck with 10 models, I would buy a transport. Rhino with Extra Armour. I'd loose the second melta gun, but still be effective. That route costs 245.
Blood Angels Assault Squad
250 pts for 10 models (allready 100 pts more, though 30 buy a Death Company Marine). So 10 Blood Claws in a Transport with Upgrades is already cheaper.
Now to upgrade my squad. Well, since I can't take melta-weapons or two special weapons, I'll take what I can. 3 Plasma Pistols and a Power Weapon. 310 pts now. A melta-bomb so I can handle vehicles like the Blood Claws. 315.
Now to do a break down (rounding up 2+ rolls to a 100% sucess rate for all cases)
15 Man Blood Claws Assault a 10 man Squad of Plague Marines.
Shooting:
2 meltas- 1 Hit, 1 Wound beats armour and allows no Feel No Pain
1 Plasma pistol- Hits 1/2 the time, 1 wound, beats armour, 1/2 casualties
12 Bolt Pistols- 6 Hit, 2 wounds, so they suffer a casualty 1/3 of the time
So lets call that 2 dead from shooting, rounding up.
On the Assault:
1 Power weapon, hits 1/2 the time, wounds 1/3rd the time. So 4 attacks, 2 hit, lets say 1 wound. 1 Casualty.
The other attacks have the same statistics to hit and wound. There are 54 attacks. 27 Hit, 9 wound, 6 save, 1.5 Feels No Pain. 1.5 Casualty.
2.5 dead from Assault. 4.5 Total Down.
10 Man
Shooting. Melta causes a casualty 1/2 the time. Plasma 1/2 of the time. 8 bolts pistols, 4 hit, lets say 1 wound (6 got 2). 1/6 of the time a casualty is taken. So lets call it 2 dead from Shooting.
Assault: Same probabilities. 1 Wound from Power Weapon. 35 Normal Attacks. 18 Hit. 6 wound. 4 save. 1 Feels no Pain. 1 Casualty.
3 Dead Total
Blood Angels:
Shooting
3 Plasma Pistols. 2 Hit. 2 Wound. 2 Casualty.
7 Bolt Pistols. Lets say 5 hit to keep with my rounding up I have been doing. 2 wounds. 1/3 of the time a Casualty will be taken.
Lets call that 2 Casualty from shooting.
Assault
Power Weapon. 4 attacks. 2 Hit. Lets say 1 wound and 1 casualty.
27 Normal Attacks. 14 Hit. Lets say 5 wound. 4 Saves. 1/2 Casualty.
1.5 Casualties
3.5 Total.
Now I know that is rough math, but I did round up everytime giving the roller the Benefit of the doubt.
The thing is the 10 man assault squad lost hands down to the 15 man Blood Claws, and barely eeked out over the 10 man. Plus they were 70 points MORE, for only .5 more casualties. And against lesser troops, like Guard, I'd do far worse in comparisson since I'd just be way under on the number of attacks. The difference between WS 3 and 4 is insignificant when attacking. It does make it easier when getting hit back, but both units are T4 and power armoured, so it won't be that much worse for the Blood Claws. And the Rhino transported blood claws are better protected from shooting. They will almost always go into assault with 10 men. My BA assault squads almost never do.
Blood Angels deserve to get Furious Charge back. Or at least something like this Berserk Charge or maybe base 2 attacks. Something to make us Assaulty again.
More on what Space Wolves mean for Blood Angels tomorrow.
And I will try and have God Machine up this weekend.
First things I noticed: Berserk Charge, Counter Attack
Well, yes, Space Wolves are supposed to be a brutal army. But Blood Angels live for Close Combat. So, we should see some enhancements for combat coming our way.
Wait, you say, Blood Angels have assault squad troops, elites, and HQ, that should be good enough. Well I say NO. Why? 5th edition is a game of Mechanized forces. I love Jump Troops, but in 5th it is much harder to assault infantry with them. Why? Well they are in a transport and if I assault the transport, they then get the assault on me after they pile out.
Now how this relates to Space Wolves is that all their units have counter attack, and all iterations of Blood Claws have Berserk Charge, giving them typically 4 attacks on the charge and 3 when charged, which is more than my assault troops, who get 3 offensively and 2 defensively. Yes, the Blood Claws are WS/BS 3 but lets number crunch. Our opponent will be one of the most common scoring units in the game right now: Nurgle Plague Marines. WS 4 T 5 I3 3+ Armour Saves.
Lets make the Squads.
So SW first
150 pts for 10 models, though they can get to 15, so lets do that, bringing us to 225 pts.
Now for special weapons. I can get my first flamer for free, melta for 5 or a plasma gun for 10. Since this is 5th ed, I'm taking the melta gun. Since I have 15 guys I get to take my second one for free. Brings us to 230 pts. I'll do one Blood Claw with a Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol, so we are now at 260.
Now if I stuck with 10 models, I would buy a transport. Rhino with Extra Armour. I'd loose the second melta gun, but still be effective. That route costs 245.
Blood Angels Assault Squad
250 pts for 10 models (allready 100 pts more, though 30 buy a Death Company Marine). So 10 Blood Claws in a Transport with Upgrades is already cheaper.
Now to upgrade my squad. Well, since I can't take melta-weapons or two special weapons, I'll take what I can. 3 Plasma Pistols and a Power Weapon. 310 pts now. A melta-bomb so I can handle vehicles like the Blood Claws. 315.
Now to do a break down (rounding up 2+ rolls to a 100% sucess rate for all cases)
15 Man Blood Claws Assault a 10 man Squad of Plague Marines.
Shooting:
2 meltas- 1 Hit, 1 Wound beats armour and allows no Feel No Pain
1 Plasma pistol- Hits 1/2 the time, 1 wound, beats armour, 1/2 casualties
12 Bolt Pistols- 6 Hit, 2 wounds, so they suffer a casualty 1/3 of the time
So lets call that 2 dead from shooting, rounding up.
On the Assault:
1 Power weapon, hits 1/2 the time, wounds 1/3rd the time. So 4 attacks, 2 hit, lets say 1 wound. 1 Casualty.
The other attacks have the same statistics to hit and wound. There are 54 attacks. 27 Hit, 9 wound, 6 save, 1.5 Feels No Pain. 1.5 Casualty.
2.5 dead from Assault. 4.5 Total Down.
10 Man
Shooting. Melta causes a casualty 1/2 the time. Plasma 1/2 of the time. 8 bolts pistols, 4 hit, lets say 1 wound (6 got 2). 1/6 of the time a casualty is taken. So lets call it 2 dead from Shooting.
Assault: Same probabilities. 1 Wound from Power Weapon. 35 Normal Attacks. 18 Hit. 6 wound. 4 save. 1 Feels no Pain. 1 Casualty.
3 Dead Total
Blood Angels:
Shooting
3 Plasma Pistols. 2 Hit. 2 Wound. 2 Casualty.
7 Bolt Pistols. Lets say 5 hit to keep with my rounding up I have been doing. 2 wounds. 1/3 of the time a Casualty will be taken.
Lets call that 2 Casualty from shooting.
Assault
Power Weapon. 4 attacks. 2 Hit. Lets say 1 wound and 1 casualty.
27 Normal Attacks. 14 Hit. Lets say 5 wound. 4 Saves. 1/2 Casualty.
1.5 Casualties
3.5 Total.
Now I know that is rough math, but I did round up everytime giving the roller the Benefit of the doubt.
The thing is the 10 man assault squad lost hands down to the 15 man Blood Claws, and barely eeked out over the 10 man. Plus they were 70 points MORE, for only .5 more casualties. And against lesser troops, like Guard, I'd do far worse in comparisson since I'd just be way under on the number of attacks. The difference between WS 3 and 4 is insignificant when attacking. It does make it easier when getting hit back, but both units are T4 and power armoured, so it won't be that much worse for the Blood Claws. And the Rhino transported blood claws are better protected from shooting. They will almost always go into assault with 10 men. My BA assault squads almost never do.
Blood Angels deserve to get Furious Charge back. Or at least something like this Berserk Charge or maybe base 2 attacks. Something to make us Assaulty again.
More on what Space Wolves mean for Blood Angels tomorrow.
And I will try and have God Machine up this weekend.
Monday, October 12, 2009
Evolution of a List: SM 2500 pts (Salamanders):
Here is the previous 2k list
Salamander 2500 pt list
HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He’stan: 190
Troops: Tactical Squad (10): 235- Sergeant, bp & chainsword; Melta Gun; Lascannon; Rhino, Extra Armour
Troops: Tactical Squad (10): 240- Sergeant, bp & chainsword, teleport homer; Melta Gun; Multi-Melta; Rhino, Extra Armour
Troops: Tactical Squad (10): 225- Sergeant, bp & chainsword; Melta Gun; Multi-Melta; Rhino, Extra Armour
Troops: Scout Squad (5): 100- 4 x BP & CCW; Teleport Homer; Heavy Bolter w/ Hellfire Rounds
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Storm: 60- Heavy Flamer
Elites Stern Guard Veteran Squad (5): 225- 2 x Melta Gun; Razorback, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Extra Armour
Heavy Support: Whirlwind: 85
Fast Attack: Vanguard Assault Squad (10): 730- Jump Packs; 8 x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; 2 x Lightning Claw and Storm Sheild
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (3): 210- 3 x Heavy Flamers, 3 x Multi-Meltas
Elites: Terminator Assault Squad (5): 200- Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields
Pts: 2500 Scoring Units: 4-7 KPs: 11, 19 (3, 2, 1 system Old ‘ard Boyz)
Evolution:
Assault Troops become heavy infantry/armour hunters
Land Speeder storm provides fast transport for a scoring unit
Tactics:
Much the same as the 2000 pt list.
The Vanguard are super hard hitting assualt troops now, with 8 Thunderhammers and 2 LC. All have storm sheilds. Check out the Power Unit: Vanguard Assualt Squad Hammer and Anvil load out for details on them.
The land speeder storm can swoop scouts in at the last moment onto an objective, or get them to an assualt where they can tip the balance.
Salamander 2500 pt list
HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He’stan: 190
Troops: Tactical Squad (10): 235- Sergeant, bp & chainsword; Melta Gun; Lascannon; Rhino, Extra Armour
Troops: Tactical Squad (10): 240- Sergeant, bp & chainsword, teleport homer; Melta Gun; Multi-Melta; Rhino, Extra Armour
Troops: Tactical Squad (10): 225- Sergeant, bp & chainsword; Melta Gun; Multi-Melta; Rhino, Extra Armour
Troops: Scout Squad (5): 100- 4 x BP & CCW; Teleport Homer; Heavy Bolter w/ Hellfire Rounds
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Storm: 60- Heavy Flamer
Elites Stern Guard Veteran Squad (5): 225- 2 x Melta Gun; Razorback, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Extra Armour
Heavy Support: Whirlwind: 85
Fast Attack: Vanguard Assault Squad (10): 730- Jump Packs; 8 x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; 2 x Lightning Claw and Storm Sheild
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (3): 210- 3 x Heavy Flamers, 3 x Multi-Meltas
Elites: Terminator Assault Squad (5): 200- Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields
Pts: 2500 Scoring Units: 4-7 KPs: 11, 19 (3, 2, 1 system Old ‘ard Boyz)
Evolution:
Assault Troops become heavy infantry/armour hunters
Land Speeder storm provides fast transport for a scoring unit
Tactics:
Much the same as the 2000 pt list.
The Vanguard are super hard hitting assualt troops now, with 8 Thunderhammers and 2 LC. All have storm sheilds. Check out the Power Unit: Vanguard Assualt Squad Hammer and Anvil load out for details on them.
The land speeder storm can swoop scouts in at the last moment onto an objective, or get them to an assualt where they can tip the balance.